After sharing how bad you think we are, in the spirit of a balanced approach share with your readers how many of us, where you used to minister, opened our hearts and homes for you and quite often our wallets out of love for you and your wife because we were so grateful to you for your service here. Many of us still, after many years continue to lift you and your wife , and especially your daughter and her health problems up to the Lord in prayer.
I am really saddened at your misrepresentation of me and many of the kindest, most godly, most loving, most humble people that I know through this widespread forum.
The first and most important point to be made is: Pharisees were unbelievers!!They did not even believe that Jesus was the Messiah. Do you really believe none of us are saved and love the Lord? Can we be wrong or a little too conservative on some issues in your view without being compared to unbelievers? I can think of other religious groups of the day that more resemble Pharisees. What about those who still reject Jesus as Messiah and resent the idea of God revealing Himself to the Gentiles?
They still require adherance to the law and some even still wear phylacteries. What about other highly ritualistic religions that don’t realize it’s about a personal relationship with Jesus Christ and not a set or sets of memorized prayers and rituals?
I consider myself to be a fundamentalist (defined as aspiring to adhere to the fundamentals of the Faith, i.e. Bible is inspired scripture, the virgin birth, the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ, personal evangelism, etc.)and am tired of the misrepresentation of our choice of beliefs. Why does tolerance only mean accepting ones position that is more liberal than yours?
I have learned to “tolerate” people that think more conservatively, too. So what if someone believes that wearing pants is wrong? I don’t share that view but I can open my mind and see that some people may take Biblical principles of modesty and come to that conclusion. You should know many of us in our church have widely varying convictions regarding music, dress, politics, and personal behavior. We tolerate each others’ opinions and choose to love each other and serve each other in a spirit of unity.
Are there those in fundamentalism that don’t love others like Christ wants us to? Yes. Are there some that get on their soapbox on issues that aren’t pertinent to the fundamentals of the faith? Yes. As long as Christ tarries, we won’t be rid of the influence of sin that spills over into ANY church.
I am asking you to remember. Remember us that really love God, really love others and want to see them saved, and really want to please the Savior. Remember those of us who have put our personal comforts aside in order to go to other cultures for many years in order to give any measure of help we can, seeking to see people come to know Christ for themselves. Not so they can learn a bunch of rules…that’s just dumb…but so they can know the Good News of JESUS.
Thank you for your response. I just came across it recently and hope that you will read this.
If you read my list, notice that my gripe is with fundamentalism, not fundamentalists; that is, the movement, not the people. I love the people. I believe the movement has gone far beyond the Bible or the intent of Christ. Many good people get caught up in all sorts of movements.
I believe that fundamentalism as a system or a movement resembles Pharisees more than other group within Christianity. I was not necessarily thinking of cults or other religious groups. I am in no way saying that fundamentalists are not going to heaven.
Some Pharisees did become true believers and followers of Christ. Most did not. The same could be said for other Jewish and Gentile groups. One big thing that upset Jesus so much about Pharisees was how they had elevated their own cultural and religious preferences to the same status as God’s Word. They were called blind leaders of the blind. The Pharisees did not know that their system was seriously flawed. They saw their system as superior to the other Jewish systems. Jesus ranked Pharisaical legalism near the bottom. Yet He loved the Pharisees just as much as He loved people from every other system.
On a personal note, I was not attacking anyone or any particular church. I have ministered or preached in hundreds of groups. The majority of them, I would call fundamentalist. Furthermore, I would still ID myself as a fundamentalist in the sense that I believe in the virgin birth, the deity of Christ, etc. Historic fundamentalism is one thing. Contemporary fundamentalism is something much different, and it has been for a long time now. If only contemporary fundamentalism would shed its Pharisaical facade and return to its simpler roots, I would feel no liberty to publish my opinions on this issue.
It was the feeling that I couldn’t invite a person with me to church because he would be asked to wear something different or carry a different Bible that drove me away. It was the senseless squabbles that I saw in dozens of churches over petty issues that the Bible never addresses that pushed me out the door. It was the consistent attitude of “let’s take the more conservative position,” even when Jesus or Paul allowed or even endorsed a less conservative position that gave me the courage to say goodbye and farewell to an oppressive movement. I never intended to say goodbye to the people. I would love to be a part of your lives. However, I would like to think that I could do so without the condition of being a contemporary fundamentalist. If you are such a person, who could still accept me and love me without conditions, then you my friend, do not have the spirit of a Pharisee, regardless of what church you attend. I would love to talk.
your comments
clwhite
Jan 24 2009
10:04 PM
Hello Ryan,
After sharing how bad you think we are, in the spirit of a balanced approach share with your readers how many of us, where you used to minister, opened our hearts and homes for you and quite often our wallets out of love for you and your wife because we were so grateful to you for your service here. Many of us still, after many years continue to lift you and your wife , and especially your daughter and her health problems up to the Lord in prayer. I am really saddened at your misrepresentation of me and many of the kindest, most godly, most loving, most humble people that I know through this widespread forum. The first and most important point to be made is: Pharisees were unbelievers!!They did not even believe that Jesus was the Messiah. Do you really believe none of us are saved and love the Lord? Can we be wrong or a little too conservative on some issues in your view without being compared to unbelievers? I can think of other religious groups of the day that more resemble Pharisees. What about those who still reject Jesus as Messiah and resent the idea of God revealing Himself to the Gentiles?They still require adherance to the law and some even still wear phylacteries. What about other highly ritualistic religions that don’t realize it’s about a personal relationship with Jesus Christ and not a set or sets of memorized prayers and rituals?
I consider myself to be a fundamentalist (defined as aspiring to adhere to the fundamentals of the Faith, i.e. Bible is inspired scripture, the virgin birth, the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ, personal evangelism, etc.)and am tired of the misrepresentation of our choice of beliefs. Why does tolerance only mean accepting ones position that is more liberal than yours?
I have learned to “tolerate” people that think more conservatively, too. So what if someone believes that wearing pants is wrong? I don’t share that view but I can open my mind and see that some people may take Biblical principles of modesty and come to that conclusion. You should know many of us in our church have widely varying convictions regarding music, dress, politics, and personal behavior. We tolerate each others’ opinions and choose to love each other and serve each other in a spirit of unity.
Are there those in fundamentalism that don’t love others like Christ wants us to? Yes. Are there some that get on their soapbox on issues that aren’t pertinent to the fundamentals of the faith? Yes. As long as Christ tarries, we won’t be rid of the influence of sin that spills over into ANY church.
I am asking you to remember. Remember us that really love God, really love others and want to see them saved, and really want to please the Savior. Remember those of us who have put our personal comforts aside in order to go to other cultures for many years in order to give any measure of help we can, seeking to see people come to know Christ for themselves. Not so they can learn a bunch of rules…that’s just dumb…but so they can know the Good News of JESUS.
RyanSnuffer
Apr 07 2009
08:56 PM
Dear friend,
Thank you for your response. I just came across it recently and hope that you will read this.
If you read my list, notice that my gripe is with fundamentalism, not fundamentalists; that is, the movement, not the people. I love the people. I believe the movement has gone far beyond the Bible or the intent of Christ. Many good people get caught up in all sorts of movements.
I believe that fundamentalism as a system or a movement resembles Pharisees more than other group within Christianity. I was not necessarily thinking of cults or other religious groups. I am in no way saying that fundamentalists are not going to heaven.
Some Pharisees did become true believers and followers of Christ. Most did not. The same could be said for other Jewish and Gentile groups. One big thing that upset Jesus so much about Pharisees was how they had elevated their own cultural and religious preferences to the same status as God’s Word. They were called blind leaders of the blind. The Pharisees did not know that their system was seriously flawed. They saw their system as superior to the other Jewish systems. Jesus ranked Pharisaical legalism near the bottom. Yet He loved the Pharisees just as much as He loved people from every other system.On a personal note, I was not attacking anyone or any particular church. I have ministered or preached in hundreds of groups. The majority of them, I would call fundamentalist. Furthermore, I would still ID myself as a fundamentalist in the sense that I believe in the virgin birth, the deity of Christ, etc. Historic fundamentalism is one thing. Contemporary fundamentalism is something much different, and it has been for a long time now. If only contemporary fundamentalism would shed its Pharisaical facade and return to its simpler roots, I would feel no liberty to publish my opinions on this issue.
It was the feeling that I couldn’t invite a person with me to church because he would be asked to wear something different or carry a different Bible that drove me away. It was the senseless squabbles that I saw in dozens of churches over petty issues that the Bible never addresses that pushed me out the door. It was the consistent attitude of “let’s take the more conservative position,” even when Jesus or Paul allowed or even endorsed a less conservative position that gave me the courage to say goodbye and farewell to an oppressive movement. I never intended to say goodbye to the people. I would love to be a part of your lives. However, I would like to think that I could do so without the condition of being a contemporary fundamentalist. If you are such a person, who could still accept me and love me without conditions, then you my friend, do not have the spirit of a Pharisee, regardless of what church you attend. I would love to talk.